Five Questions with Allyson Gunsallus, Producer of Hand Holds

Five Questions: Interview with Allyson Gunsallus, Producer of Hand Holds

Hand Holds is an interview series produced by Allyson Gunsallus. The purpose of the series is to help climbers understand the transition to parenting and parenthood as a climber.

Watch the interview and learn more here.

Matt Niswonger: Welcome to Adventure Sports Journal’s Five questions. Today I am interviewing Allyson Gunsalllus, who has a new project called Hand Holds: Climbing After Parenthood we are pretty excited about. Good morning, Allyson.

Allyson Gunsallus: Good morning, Matt. Thanks so much for having me today.

Matt Niswonger: Yeah. So we’ve been discussing your project. You are the producer and it’s a web series called Hand Holds, and it’s about parenting as a climber and your journey and getting back into climbing as a parent and also speaking to other parents. But instead of me doing all the talking, how about why don’t I just let you sort of talk about your project.

Allyson Gunsallus: Thank you. First, I wanna say I have been a huge fan of the Adventure Sports Journal for years, and I just really value what you and Cathy are doing for the community. I really appreciate having a space to talk about this series with you today. So, I am directing and producing a six-part web series. It’s meant to be a free to watch resource to benefit mental health, parental wellness, and maternal wellness in the climbing community. So, I am interviewing pro climbers who are also parents, and I shouldn’t really say pro climbers. They’re also climbers who have become fixtures in our community about issues ranging from logistics of climbing after parenthood to nursing and postpartum recovery. And my motivation for producing this series really was my postpartum experience when I had my now toddler in November, 2021. I have been climbing recreationally for 18 years, and I have had volunteer positions in the community throughout the last decade or so. I’m currently on the board of the American Alpine Club, and I was a managing director for the Yosemite Climbing Association. Climbing has always had a really large part in my life, and even so, I always knew I wanted to have a family. I thought that after I had my now toddler that I would just get right back to climbing and I was really wrong. I totally underestimated postpartum recovery and also how much I would be devoted to my family after I became a mom. And now with a full-time job outside of my full-time job as a toddler mom it’s really hard for me to keep climbing, which is something I really wanna do, and which has always benefited my mental health. In those first few weeks with my son, I looked for depictions of my experience online. So parents who wanted to keep climbing were finding it difficult, and I really didn’t find any, what I saw, especially on social media, were these snapshots and time of happy families outside. And they actually, at that time, made me feel worse. Like, what were we doing wrong? Because even though we really wanted to keep climbing, we were finding it really challenging. So this series is really meant to be a resource for new parents, and it’s meant to normalize the experience of the huge transition into parenthood for even really committed athletes who are used to just setting their mind on a goal and achieving those goals.

Matt Niswonger: Okay. And so question number two is how is Hand Holds different from other climbing media and other stories about parenting that you’ve seen out there? I know you touched on this a little bit.

Allyson Gunsallus: Yeah, I’ve seen that the traditional climbing story is usually a linear narrative where the family is a footnote to the story about achieving some big climbing goal. I love those stories. We can get lost in those stories, especially as climbers, the adventure of it all. This is an interview series, so it’s six episodes. Each episode is an interview with a different climber parent about their experience, and it’s really meant to peel back the layers of that image that we put forth sometimes as successful athletes to get into the kind of the mental spaces behind and the challenges that we have as we, as we struggle with shifting identities. I don’t even think you have to be a parent to have had a shift in identity as a climber in your climbing career. You know, a job change or an injury I think can present the same issue. Also the athletes I’m interviewing all have projects outside of climbing. So there with I think possibly one exception, they all have their, their own companies that they’re creating, or they even have careers that are, are not even adjacent to climbing.  And I think that’s interesting because as a recreational climber, we’re all balancing this kind of, this like triangle of work family and, and like recreational life, which for me really was always focused on climbing. And there are challenges that are unique to that set up. I also wanna point out that the goal of the series is not at all to shed a negative light on parenting or climbing. It’s really to use climbing as a very focused lens to uncover issues that I think are common to all parents. So, we all deal with being concerned about risks we’re taking when we become parents because we have these little guys who are depending on us. We’re trying to continue to pursue our passions outside of our family, but it’s hard to find time or the resources. So, it’s non-judgmental, and it really just shows the different strengths and weaknesses that climbing families have and how they leverage those things to continue pursuing climbing. Really looking forward to shooting the final four interviews end of August. We’ve shot the first two with Beth Rodden and Micah Bihar, and we are shooting the Final four in Colorado and Wyoming with Eddie and Anna Taylor, John and Jess Glassberg, Chris Callus, and Chris Hampton.

Matt Niswonger: Excellent. So, what has been most surprising about producing this series?

Allyson Gunsallus: So, I am about 19 months into production at this point, and I’ve only just started publicizing the series, so getting it out on podcasts and in social media. And I honestly wasn’t sure if this was only going to be something for me, because really I’m creating the resource that I wanted in those first six weeks with the hope that it’ll benefit someone else, another mom or another dad. We are interviewing moms and dads. I think it’s really important to point that out. There are some resources that are focused on maternal wellness specifically, but I think that dads are a huge part of this story. And they also are, they’re experiencing the largest, one of the largest shifts in their lives as they become parents. So, I think it’s important to expand the lens to include, you know, all parts of the family story. What I have been surprised about as podcasts come out and friends of friends are hearing about the project, a lot of people who aren’t climbers are saying that these issues are relevant to them. So, people who have pursued other outdoor pursuits like skiing for example, but even just parents in general, and I think I already touched on this a bit, it’s interesting because these issues are common to all parents, but climbing somehow puts puts them into a really clear focus because within the lens of climbing, we’re encountering all of the issues like in a very, like, hyper augmented way, right? Because with climbing there’s a lot of risk. So, it’s not just how do you deal with the idea of, of risk as a parent, but you’re actually encountering that risk if you’re still climbing. So, you really have to think through a lot of issues that parents have in general. So, I am really happy to hear that this series is relevant outside of climbing and I, and that means to me that it will be useful to climbers, which was my goal for myself when I embarked on the project.

Matt Niswonger: Yeah. And so who’s involved in the production?

Allyson Gunsallus: So, my very good friend, George Baker Jr. Is a great photographer and he has been involved since the start and really he has been a sounding board for the project since the beginning. So glad to have him as an assistant on the project. And then we have a great crew who has joined. Samuel Crossley is a cinematographer. He has an amazing resume, has worked on Don Wall, free solo, and just a spectrum of climbing projects. And he introduced me to Taylor Keating, who is the editor on the project and also has pursued his own projects and edited for the Real Rock series. So, I keep saying that I am shocked at the crew that has come together for this project. I am so passionate about the project and it means a lot to me that there are people who have really devoted their careers to production and climbing, who are willing to put their energies on this topic, which I feel really deserves the attention that, that these talented crew are, are giving it. Also, I need to call out some wonderful product sponsors who have joined the effort. So, we are launching a crowdfund campaign on July 31st Wednesday. I also have a fiscal sponsor, the Gotham Film and Media Institute, which has created the opportunity for people to make tax deductible donations to the project. So far I have fully funded this passion project and I’m looking forward to opening the opportunity to the community to join in our efforts so we can continue work and, and film the final interviews, get production finalized, and then move into post-production. Beal the Rope company has joined to offer incentives for the Crowdfund campaign, UZU Maddie Ceramics and also the Power Company, Chris Hampton’s company. We have a couple other partners handle Stash, a company that does cup holders for bikes and stroller, handlebars clean Waste and Dirt Bag bar.  Possibly also Hootie hoo a company that does clothing for kids, specifically outdoor clothing only for kids, which is which is great because I know we have Patagonia North Face does kids clothing, but this is a company focused only on kids clothing. So through the Crowdfund campaign you can access those incentives and the links will be available here related to this five q and a pro video. And you can also check out handholds film.com. In the donate page you can, you can access either the opportunity to donate through the Gotham or the Seed and Spark crowdfund campaign. And I know you’re looking over my notes there, Matt, did I miss anyone? I have to say thank you to my partner, Ted, actually who is really helping me as I’m working on this project from home after bedtime. You know, he’s the one who’s doing the dishes after dinner, so I’m really appreciative for for his support. But yeah, if you see anyone on that, on those notes over there that…

Matt Niswonger: I think my fifth question is how, how can the Adventure Sports Journal community, I guess, what’s the simplest way for them to watch handholds? And then also what’s, what’s the simplest way for them to support you?

Allyson Gunsallus: The simplest way to support is to check out the Seed and Spark campaign (see here). Even if you don’t wanna make a financial contribution, share it out to your community. If you think this is something that a friend of yours who’s considering having a family or has just become a parent would be interested in, send them the link either to handholds film.com or directly to the Seed and Spark campaign. If you follow the campaign, you will receive updates even if you haven’t contributed financially. The first episode will premiere in spring 2025 on YouTube at the latest. So, the best way to be notified of that would be to follow the Seed and Spark campaign. And if you’re thinking about making a larger contribution or you think there may be someone in your community who’s interested in that reach out to me or visit the Gotham link specifically for the project through the handholds film.com website. Mostly though, it’s going to be all word of mouth as far as building the audience for the project and really getting people to see it, who need it. And so it’s real, it’s on all of us to, to promote this resource and also consider ways in our community that we can create spaces for families. So a couple ideas I’ve had are promoting supporting opportunities for childcare at the gym, even if that’s just like groups of families coming together so that parents can take turns climbing while like a few kids play together in a safe space. Another idea I had was was considering family spaces at, at climbing festivals, so family camping opportunities and also activities and programs that are specific for families that have younger kids. I think as the climbing demographic ages, and we all know there’s been this huge explosion in climbing in the last decade. There are going to be more and more climbers who have families. And so these issues, I think we’re going to be talking about them more in the next few years.

Matt Niswonger: Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely. Well, we’ll be so it sounds like you have two episodes done currently, and then you are, you have how many more episodes that you’ll be working on?

Allyson Gunsallus: Four. So we’re, yeah, we’re filming four more. Okay. End of August. And then the goal is to premiere the first episode, so finalize editing all of that by the spring 2025 at the latest.

Matt Niswonger: Yeah, we’re excited. Allyson you certainly took on, I think a lot of people would say, you certainly took on a challenging topic in the sense that, you know, everyone has an opinion about parenting because there are so many parents out there. So, but at the same time, that doesn’t mean that it maybe, maybe underneath the fact that everyone has an opinion is that there’s just so much there and there’s just, there’s just so much, you know, to discuss and to, you know, to basically, you know, raise, raise the game a little bit in terms of like speaking more honestly about how difficult parenting is. Certainly, certainly starting with like as, as a husband, you know, just with labor and delivery, it was absolutely a, a slap to the ground way different than we thought it would be. It was just shocking. It was savage, it was so different than anyone prepared us for, none of the birthing classes prepared us properly. It was, for me, it was a bit like some climbing accidents I’ve seen where people almost died. And so that’s what you don’t get as a dad is a significant portion of men will watch their partner almost die, and no one tells you that you’re, it, it’s like, where’s the information out there? So, you know, anyways, I I don’t wanna make it over.

Allyson Gunsallus: And not just, not just your partner. No, not just your partner, but also your newborn, right? Yeah. There’s two lives at stake there. Absolutely labor and delivery is very serious business. And I think that I, I think parents go in or pre parents go in naive, but especially athletes because we are used to preparing and training and having the outcomes that we’re expecting. And there is a randomness to climbing, but there, there, the, the one consistency with I think with parenthood and starting with labor and delivery is you cannot really prepare for everything and, and there will be something unexpected that happens. I was shocked at my labor and delivery experience. I was in the hospital for five days and that was how I started parenthood and it was completely a 180 degrees different from what I was expecting. And I think it set me up to do just a lot of soul searching and thinking about this topic, which is why I’m so passionate about this project. I know I’m not the only one who has had that experience. I think that as athletes, we do have a unique take on this though, because we’re so in tune with our bodies and we’re so used to our bodies doing what we want them to do. And so, I think it can knock us down, like you said when we have this medical, you know, experience that maybe doesn’t go as expected. Beth Rotten and Micah Behar are the two interviews I’ve already had, and they, they expressed that they had very similar experiences. And then we go right in as moms to nursing, which again is another, another experience where I expected it to be unicorns and rainbows, and it really wasn’t. I had a lot of challenges nursing, and I was really committed to breastfeeding, so, I continued through it, but it was not easy at all.  And it was very hard to continue breastfeeding and climb because I had to bring coolers out, climbing and pumps on climbing trips, and I would forget parts of my pump. We’d have to go to Walmart on the road trip to get the part that I forgot. All of these things that just added a whole layer of planning to the logistical challenges that are already inherent to climbing trips. And you said, you know, it’s a challenging topic, parenting because everybody has a different perspective. Absolutely. But I think there are some common limitations and challenges that we all experience. And so the idea is to really shed light on six different families experiences in a non-judgmental way, so that we can all feel a little better about our own limitations.

Matt Niswonger: Excellent well, thank you very much Allyson, and we look forward to watching your web series and good luck with the final four episodes. We’ll be, you know, we’ll be coming back to this over time between now and spring 2024, 2025, excuse me on social media and just kind of sharing, you know, your progress. And then yeah, look forward to watching all six episodes.

Allyson Gunsallus: Thanks so much, Matt. I’m really looking forward to continuing the conversation with you and Cathy and really appreciate your support here. If anybody wants to check it out now, handholds film.com and all of the links are on actually the donate page there. So, thanks again.